DovBear's Moment of Truth II
As expected, DovBear tried to find differences in the Clinton and Carter executive orders, while ignoring the underlying some of the underlying points; government intercepting communications without a court order, Clinton and Echelon, the way the NSA wiretaps are thought to work, the role of an executive order in government, whether the order is actually unconstitutional, the Congressional authorization post 9/11, the many professors, libs and conservatives alike, who are on both sides of the issue, the Foreign Surveillance Court's view that the President has such powers, etc etc.
I'm not saying that the actions taken are or are not constitutional. Especially since I'm not positive on how they work (note that there is a difference between speaking in public and on a public telephone. Cell phones and landlines differ too. Technology matters).
What bugs me is that DB (and others) aren't interested in either a policy discussion or a legal discussion. Rather, they just want to bash Bush. Which is perfectly fine, but at least let them be honest about it. In seeking to bash Bush, in spicing up their rhetoric, words like "illegal," "unconstitutional," and "impeachment" are used. While the latter may be a purely political exercise, the former two are words of art, with specific meanings.
Not that DB is doing anything different than anyone else. All politicians take this route, and most of us commit similar grievances in our daily conversations. Just recognize that its blending different discussions, law, policy, and politics. While people frequently have the same view on all three (see "A Conflict of Visions" by Thomas Sowell), they are three different discussions.
As you can no doubt tell, I have an interest in politics and law. I'll try to keep it out of this blog, unless you guys want it.
Update: DovBear admits "The key difference is I want to get rid of Bush because he's an imcompetant baboon who's repeatedly lied to the American people about issues of substance, and who has mismanaged both a war and a hurricane. You wanted to get rid of Clinton simply b/ he was a democrat who liked women." I replied. Apparently DB fell into the trap of assuming everyone against him has like minded views, and couldn't possibly be anything than a frothing at the mouth right wing lunatic with no brains. Oh well.
I'm not saying that the actions taken are or are not constitutional. Especially since I'm not positive on how they work (note that there is a difference between speaking in public and on a public telephone. Cell phones and landlines differ too. Technology matters).
What bugs me is that DB (and others) aren't interested in either a policy discussion or a legal discussion. Rather, they just want to bash Bush. Which is perfectly fine, but at least let them be honest about it. In seeking to bash Bush, in spicing up their rhetoric, words like "illegal," "unconstitutional," and "impeachment" are used. While the latter may be a purely political exercise, the former two are words of art, with specific meanings.
Not that DB is doing anything different than anyone else. All politicians take this route, and most of us commit similar grievances in our daily conversations. Just recognize that its blending different discussions, law, policy, and politics. While people frequently have the same view on all three (see "A Conflict of Visions" by Thomas Sowell), they are three different discussions.
As you can no doubt tell, I have an interest in politics and law. I'll try to keep it out of this blog, unless you guys want it.
Update: DovBear admits "The key difference is I want to get rid of Bush because he's an imcompetant baboon who's repeatedly lied to the American people about issues of substance, and who has mismanaged both a war and a hurricane. You wanted to get rid of Clinton simply b/ he was a democrat who liked women." I replied. Apparently DB fell into the trap of assuming everyone against him has like minded views, and couldn't possibly be anything than a frothing at the mouth right wing lunatic with no brains. Oh well.
posted by Romach at
2:57 PM
